Poi Transmission: new video

topic posted Mon, March 10, 2008 - 5:51 PM by  Zan
This should satisfy your cravings, or make you salivate. Alien Jon shows some real crazy genius in his section. I threw in a bunch of new patterns and shapes, too.
www.youtube.com/watch
Please comment. If you liked/ didn't like, don't leave me hanging.
Peace
posted by:
Zan
offline Zan
Oregon
  • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

    Tue, March 11, 2008 - 5:52 AM
    um, let me be the first to say it.

    Wow.

    really impressive you guys. Jon: everytime I see you spin I'm amazed by how you transform the ideas we've all discussed into actuality. I love that you guys are finally getting the olive hybrids, and those "3d" linear extensions, awesome idea. Zan I also love the linear extension (this is the proper term these days for this I think?) split diamonds. the turning stall/anti-spin half flowers were brilliant also jon, you have them down so well now. There are so many ideas come to life and so many more things to think about, I despair for my shoulder and my time to practice !!

    also fantastic, fantastic editing. I can't wait to see you guys again at firedrums! (and everyone else of course)
  • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

    Tue, March 11, 2008 - 11:26 AM
    nice to see some cateye hybrids make it onto the net.

    some nice spinning.

    thanks for that.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Poi Transmission: new video

      Tue, March 11, 2008 - 1:57 PM
      well now i know why we had to wait so long! great job with the editing in the digital graphics over the unit circle patterns! i cannot WAIT to see you guys in May!
      • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

        Wed, March 12, 2008 - 8:08 AM
        pretty, tasty, and pretty tasty.

        only criticism i could have (and its pretty small) is the lack of mobility in such a long vid. other than that, its the first techvid outta the states thats made me smile so much in a long time. kudos :o) the graphics and skills are great.

        some day we'll spin together :)
        • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

          Wed, March 12, 2008 - 9:24 PM
          Thanks for all the great comments!!

          Bluecat: Yeah, I would have liked to move around more, but alot of it was on pretty precarious footings on the rocks... and then there was the show casing the techy stuff....
          ;-)
          • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

            Thu, March 13, 2008 - 5:01 AM
            lol - i know very well how that can feel.
            got a couple of other points, but i'll mail them to ya rather than spoil a very loved up thread. lol.

            :D
            • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

              Fri, March 14, 2008 - 4:00 PM
              Well, hopefully you won't completely deconstruct Zan and/or I, but by all means post constructive criticism here if it's stuff both the community and we can learn from!

              I'm already wanting to correct my posture and shoulder scrunching. I was really scrunchy in that video... and the concentration mouth....
  • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

    Tue, March 11, 2008 - 1:56 PM
    I am seriously going to have to work something out with a couple of people cause I need to need to need to need to make it to fire drums. Its pretty much PARAMOUNT that I attend.

    Zan, I look forward to meeting you. From the first time I saw you spin, I spotted a couple of the key similarities in our styles and I would love to sit down and actually watch you spin in person and learn some new things.

    AlienJon, whats to say that I haven't already said to you? Everytime you show me something new, I let it digest for a couple months and I come back to you with a couple modifications. Case in point -> Butterfly Anurism XD. And speaking of that...have you tried sectioning that up and throwing it into all of those hybrid combinations? Cause...thats what I'm doing hehehehehehe

    But on the video guys, beyond excellent work! As soon as I saw it, I dashed to my room and got my poi and started working on some of the things I saw. I love when this excitement kicks in. And it feels like your a kid again playing with new toys. The new patterns were a joy to actually see manifested as well. Firedrums is going to make all sorts of insane things come to life....I can't wait!
  • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

    Wed, March 12, 2008 - 10:08 AM
    Nice guys...

    Finally a new video which will get me up and practicing again. I really liked the mixed timing butterfly stuff you were doing, Zan. Tis something I've been wanting to play with more but never did... Till now.
  • Absolutely Beautiful

    Wed, March 12, 2008 - 2:24 PM
    Poi Evolution - Brilliant!!!!
    Video Quality - Fantastic
    Music Choices - Unnnnhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
    Editing + Choice Animations - Sick, very unique.

    Gratitude for your work put in - Inexpressible!!!

    Inspiration factor for a spin freak -- Wrist WhipCracking Ill to the Nth power.

    thank you. please keep up the amazing work.
  • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

    Wed, March 12, 2008 - 2:33 PM
    I love you guys...

    great video. you really put the excitement into my practice today...

    Zan you've got me in knots trying to get the timing changes for that diamond butterfly pattern

    John... you've got my brain in knots as usual...

    Can't wait to see you both.
  • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

    Wed, March 19, 2008 - 2:45 PM
    I think we could all benefit from Jon annotating his moves in the video with time-references. I know that in editing it, there were things that I simply did not understand.
    Whadaya say, Jon?
    • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

      Fri, March 21, 2008 - 12:56 PM
      I just need to buff up on my terminology. Jon is floating precariously somewhere in the clouds. Its the helical spinning that gets the ??? going in my head.

      And what is the diamond butterfly thing you do? I cant seem to get the timing right on that thing....
      • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

        Fri, March 21, 2008 - 1:13 PM
        its a 4x1 anti-bryd with linear extentions through the middle.

        its time bent, meaning that the timing is always changing.

        At the top and bottom, as well as the extention that links the two is in same time

        at the right and left, as well as the extention that links the two is in split time

        and all of the angles are in quarter time, but if you treat it as a 4x1 it just happens.
        • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

          Sat, March 22, 2008 - 3:50 PM
          Tank's description of the move is very accurate. A diamond, with its interior diagonals drawn too. Changing timing at each vertex of the shape, quarter time on the outside edges, all extensions.
          You can do it with 3x1 for triangles, and 5x1 for pentagrams (the timing changes by 60 and 72 degrees, respectively, at each vertex of those shapes.
          Confusing to describe, easier to envision by looking at the shape drawn out.
          • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

            Sun, March 23, 2008 - 7:04 AM
            Am I right in saying that it's just alternating between same-time vertically oriented elliptical butterflies and split time vertically oriented elliptical butterflies, switching on the outside (ie without coming to center) and without any extra beats?
            • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

              Sun, March 23, 2008 - 6:19 PM
              Yes, Baz, you are right. You can think of the outside parts (that don't go through the center) as either a linear extension in a 1/4 time butterfly, or as a portion of a 1x4petal (= 1x3orbit) butterfly hybrid that's been slightly flattened.
              What we're getting into now is something I've been thinking about: one move can be described in many ways. So everyone is understanding it based on what they already know and how they think about poi. The individual understandings are the result of bringing a foreign concept into your own established framework. The good part is that since everyone's description and understanding of the same move are slightly different, each person will develop it and explore it in his/her own way.
          • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

            Sun, March 23, 2008 - 6:59 PM
            I'm replying to myself because this last thing I wrote is wrong. I gave a half-hearted post that wasn't fully accurate.
            Tank said that the move is a 1x4. That is true, but it needs specification. There's some lax terminology out there for polyrhythms we need to remedy.

            BRIEF TERMINOLOGY RANT
            The most common anti-spin flower has 4 petals. The poi only makes 3 complete circles though. If you count the times the poi passes the bottom of its orbit, you count three. I'm arguing here that counting ORBITS is better than counting PETALS because of what happens with small numbers. This shape is 3x1 because the poi makes 3 rotations while the hand makes 1.
            A 3 petal anti-spin makes 2 orbits. It's 2x1 since the poi makes 2 orbits while the hand makes one.
            A Cat-eye (hand-makes-a-circle variety) would be a 2 'petal', the top and bottom of the ellipse would be the petals (ugh). It's 1x1 since the hand and poi make a single orbit in the same amount of time. When you do this cateye, you will not feel any 2 in it at all. It's all 1s, equal timing, equal orbits.

            BACK TO THE DIAMOND SHAPE
            The whole move is 4x1, four poi orbits to 1 hand-diamond-pattern.
            Some simple reference points for this discussion: top, bottom, left, right will refer to the verticies of the diamond, they are all connected by lines.
            Watching one poi, it passes the top when its hand is at the top position. The hand moves to the bottom, the to the left. Just as the poi reaches the top of its orbit again, the hand starts to move across to the right. Then it goes from the right to the top, where it hits the top of its orbit again. So top, bottom, left, right made 2 full poi orbits. The second half of the move (top, bottom, right, left) makes 2 more. Once the hand has traced this full pattern, the poi has made 4 orbits. 4x1

            TRIANGLES AND PENTAGRAMS
            What I said about 3x1 and 5x1 was false. Wrong naming system. A triangle can be easily made by dividing a hand-circle into 3 equal arcs (120 degrees each), then flattening them into lines. For example, take a 2x1 (3 petal) butterfly hybrid ("mercedes"), an instead of making a big circle with your hands, move linearly between three points. One poi is 2x1 with the hands in the opposite direction, and the other poi is 1x1 with the hands in the same direction.
            Pentagram gets heady. The shape your hands trace is a 5 pointed star, connecting the interior diagonals of a pentagon. I'm going to describe the one in which your hands always stay together and your poi go opposite directions (the same bouncing butterfly as in all previous shape examples). One way to look at it (the same system I've been using) would be that hitting all five points is one hand orbit. While that's happening the anti-spinning poi makes 3 orbits (but traces 5 ellipses), so 3x1. The other poi, that moves in the same direction as the hands, makes 2 orbits, so 2x1.
            Another way of looking at it (more complicated, yet mathematically accurate), is as 2 circles that were flattened in different places. Now the arcs are 144 degrees, and it takes 5 of them to make 2 full circles (720 total degrees). If this is confusing, picture a 5 pointed star inside a circle. Now push one of the straight lines out from the center, stretching the line into a curve, and making it curve all the way out to be a part of the circle again. The ending curve that rests on the circle is the "arc of 144 degrees", and the line we started with is the "flattened arc". So counting the hand path as 2 circles gives us polyrhythm of 3x2 for the anti-spun poi, and 2x2 for the regular-spun poi.
            I said it was heady. But I didn't want to leave a hideous error posted (5x1 was not even close).

            LINES
            I like lines. They make my spinning look goofy, but I don't care. My exploration of the possible combinations of linear extensions and isolations into elliptical flowers has been a personal pursuit: something I do because I like it, not because I want other people to like me for it.
            I fully realize that someone who spun just a little poi would walk up to me in a park, see the floppy shapes, and kindly offer "here, it's done like this..." and show me the weave. So it goes.
            • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

              Mon, March 24, 2008 - 12:26 AM
              Here is a crosslink to some technical disscusion about our video over in firevideoz tribe:
              firevideoz.tribe.net/thread/...8b336567
              • Re: Poi Transmission: new video

                Mon, March 24, 2008 - 2:39 AM
                yup, zan good post the three "petal" antispin contains two actual circles/beats...

                and if I didn't say it…grrrreat video.


                I like how you attempted to clarify a distinction I'll just say in other words...

                WARNING
                What follows could be totally wrong… ; )

                A "Three petal antispin" can be done as perfect equilateral triangles where the interior angles are 60 degrees, as seen from the inside of the triangle made from the hands.

                but the tendency is to make a long side of the triangle of the antispin, so the triangle is more obtuse, more like 100 or so, especially the vertical side of the triangle down the line of symmetry of the body, hey, its easier to extend vertically than the horizontal unless your zan and have really long arms ; P

                This long side is where we see a linear extension/isolation thrown into an antispin when we isolate/or extend down that center

                ...seems like some of the problem lies in a shape and relation confusion....

                Jon's said like this before is quite insightful, but I guess I wasn't ready for it until recently...but I'll try to relate a little bit…sarah, I know your following this somewhere ; P

                There are many relationships going on in poi….

                We are confronted with one when do flowers.

                It is a timing and direction relation between the arms and the poi that is focused on…. I mean that we are thinking for the easy flowers our arms and poi go the same direction and timing. (When we break these rule we get hybrids, yah!)

                For example a split time same direction ARM and POI Flower in the wheel plane….and these are done in circles…hence the petals of the flowers terminology. But we are not thinking about the hand yet we are stuck on the arm….even though the big circle we make is made by the hand..

                But when we start to do "flowers" that are different in shape, meaning the extended circle changes into another type of shape ie a line, unit circle, another relationship begins to show up.

                A hand to poi relation, where the poi spins in its circle (ellipse) and our hand is now a line. We are thinking about a line with our hand, not so much arms.

                The easy example is a linear isolation, we now are not exactly making a circle with the poi but more ellipse or squished antispin looking shape. The hand is the primary focus.

                When we go to the "unit circle" or isolated circle we are super focused on the hand and the poi relation…, the motion of our arms has been literally minimized to make a cateye or isolation appear….think about it even in an isolation the poi make a small circle.

                Its late, I'm tired, not sure if that makes sense, but I definely see a confusion in the way that we talk about the higher level material…it comes with almost a powers of ten or zooming in feel. As the shapes w/ the hand get smaller we approach the limits of motion of the body…go unit circle.

                So….it took me a while but I think its is beginning to set in..


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